Trans Canada Stories

Welcome to Trans Canada Stories.

I'm Cyn Sweeney and I'm joined

by the lovely co-host, Emma Stanley.

And in Trans Canada stories we're all about going

beyond binary and telling stories of trans people as people.

Welcome to the show.

Alright folks. Hello, my name is Emma Stanley.

I she her pronouns.

And I'm Cyn Sweeney.

I use she her pronouns,

and together we host the podcast Trans Canada Stories.

Uh, trans Canada Stories is all about celebrating trans

folks and their allies, uh, from coast to coast to coast.

And we're doing things just a little bit differently today.

Number one, uh, we are live streaming in, uh,

with a new platform.

So this is new, uh,

and we're also celebrating AccessAbility Week.

the theme for AccessAbility Week is forward Together

accessibility and Inclusion for All.

And it runs nationally from Sunday, May 26th

to Saturday, June 1st.

And it's celebrating the valuable con contributions

and leaderships of people with disabilities in Canada.

The work allies, organizations

and communities that we, that are removing barriers

and ongoing efforts to become a more accessible

and disability inclusive Canada

phy, excuse me.

Physical accessibility is like a major component

of inclusion work, but we always also have

to consider less obvious barriers, um,

to creating welcoming environments.

Today we've called in an expert

and she is unstoppable when it comes

to her valuable contributions

and leadership advocating

for accessibility, life and laughter.

Michelle Mahoney, sorry.

Michelle Mahoney was born with a condition

that limited mobility in her hands, uh, arms and knees.

And she was born with clubbed feet and a dislocated hip.

The doctors told her parents she would probably never walk,

But flash forward

to 1995 when Michelle graduated from St.

Francis, Xavier or St.

FX University with what she likes to refer as a

Bachelor of Arts and a major in Independence.

Actually, it was a Bachelor of Arts in Sociology

and a major in Independence.

Um, after working at Dalhousie University for 23 years,

Michelle, uh, now sits on the board, um, of directors

with Easter Seals Nova Scotia,

and Easter Seals Board of Canada

as the Nova Scotia representative.

She's also the accessibility officer at University

of Kings College, right here in Halifax, Nova Scotia.

Michelle is also an avid surfer, enjoys downhill skiing

and water skiing,

and enjoys spending time with her husband, family,

friends, and her dog.

Gus, welcome to Trans Canada Stories. Michelle,

Thank you. Thank

you so much for having me.

Having it really is wonderful to have you here.

So, Michelle, and I'm sorry if I'm getting the

pronunciation wrong here.

The condition you were born with is called Arthrogryposis

You're muted. Oh, I'm so sorry.

It's okay. 'cause we're in the office together

so I can still hear you.

Um, Michelle, the condition you were born with is called,

Arthrogryposis

and it was a pretty dire diagnosis when you were young.

Uh, and now you're serving in water skiing.

Uh, can you tell me how you got from there to here?

Uh, yeah, sure. So, um, thank you

for having me today, you guys.

Um, this is such a very important week.

It's National AccessAbility

or access awareness week.

So I really am very excited to,

to be here and join you today.

Um, so I was born in Spring Hill, Nova Scotia.

I'm the youngest of five kids.

And, um, so yeah, I was, I was the third known case

of, uh, the condition called Arthrogryposis.

And what that is is lack of muscle in various joints, uh,

like, like Emma said earlier.

And, um, my doctor sat my mom down

and said that people

with this condition lead very normal lives.

So treat her like you would a regular kid.

And being the youngest of five kids,

that's exactly how I was raised.

Um, I was never pitied

or, um, you know, I was, I was able to be involved in

anything and everything I wanted to be involved in.

And, uh, yeah, I have a twin brother.

We were wo mates and, um, um,

he does not have a disability.

Um, I always say that he maybe beat me up a little bit,

but in the womb, and that's why.

No, I'm kidding. I'm just kidding

Your brother.

I know, right? We're best

of friends today too, by the way.

Um, but,

but yeah, so I guess, you know, being, being a person

with a disability and,

and growing up in a small town, like my mom advocated

for me for everything.

And, you know, every year she would have to go in

and educate the teachers that they would be having a student

with a disability in their class that year.

And, you know, it just, uh, that, that's kind

of just how we, we went on and, and, you know,

but like I said earlier too, about being involved in,

in many things, um, you know, my mom

would be sitting on the sidelines worried.

Little did I know that she, you know, was worried,

but again, I was just involved in anything

and, and everything.

And so to me, I was a normal kid

because I just did everything that, uh, you know, that,

that everyone else was doing.

And, and, uh, yeah,

I love that. And

like, really, I think what you said there when you

link back to like accessibility and inclusion, isn't it?

I think Emma, you had said right earlier today,

it's about finding, like, coming into alignment

with this sense of normalcy, this sense of, of fit,

you know, um, uh,

or belonging is much better, uh, than the word, uh, fit,

but that sense of belonging, um, in that space.

Is there, you know, anything that stands out to you, like

as far as, you know, your journey has gone so far, uh, that,

you know, somebody who maybe has, you've said your mom, um,

that has really helped you to ensure you're being included.

Um, is there anyone else that like,

has really helped you along the way?

Like maybe we can talk about your time at, uh, at St. FX

and, and what accessibility look like there for you

and, you know, from that first day that you started?

Sure. Um, so I looked at St. FX

because, um, it was a small town is a small town

like Spring Hill where I grew up.

And, when I was in high school, in grade 12,

of course, I, you know, wanted to go to university, wanted

to do what everyone else was doing, of course.

And, and, uh, you know, I was, I was, uh, you know,

I wasn't a straight A student,

but I was a typical, uh, you know, teenager

and just wanting to be like everyone else.

And so I was looking at St. Mary's University because St.

Mary's University at that time was known as the university

that, um, that, uh, not, I don't wanna say caters,

but they had, uh, the Student Center for Excellence.

It was called, um, for people with disabilities.

And it really was the university back in 1991, known,

um, as, as the great university for people, uh,

with disabilities to attend.

And, um, but, uh,

I had spent some time at the rehab center here in Halifax,

uh, working with an occupational therapist to come up

with gadgets and stuff to, to learn to do things for myself.

And, um, during the time that I was here, I really kinda,

I found the city to be so big and really too much for me.

And as an 18-year-old, I just felt really, um,

really overwhelmed by the, by the bigness of the city.

And that's when I looked at another, uh, at, at St. FX

because, um, it was a smaller town.

So we made a few visits to the university, uh, my mom and I,

and, I mean, they literally bent over backwards

to accommodate my needs.

And, they gave me a room with, with my own bathroom.

And I lived, I lived there for four years.

Um, I lived on campus for four years.

actually, uh, kind of a funny story.

My mom, um, talked to my twin brother into going to

St. FX to look out for me for my first year.

and I didn't know that,

so I just knew we were both going to St. FX.

Um, and, uh, you know, little did I know

that, that he did not want to go there.

He wanted to go to UNB, he was accepted to UNB,

I'm pretty sure he wanted to get as far away as possible

because, you know, all of our lives, um, you know,

my mom would bring me to the IWK

and, you know, my mom was always, always that person that,

that took me everywhere.

Um, and my sisters

and my dad would, would stay home with my brother.

And then, you know, my, my brother when we were younger,

even took my mom aside

and told my mom he wished he had a disability

because, you know, my mom's always taking me, taking me

to Halifax and, you know, for doctor's appointments

and stuff, but, mm-hmm.

You know, mind you, my time wasn't rosy.

These were not rosy fun times for me.

So, um, you know, we graduate from high school and,

and of course he's off to St. FX with me in the fall.

And, and, you know, he came with me and,

and, um, it really was such a, a very,

um, amazingly scary, uh, time for me

because, you know, I realized how much I took my mom

for granted, my mom helped me

with everything from getting dressed to doing my hair.

We had such routine.

And then, um, you know, I, I, uh,

I got my period the first time at, at university

and I thought like, okay,

like I can't have somebody assist me.

Oh, I forgot to mention I had an attendant who would come in

and help me every day, or maybe I did mention.

Um, and so, but it just wasn't the same

because we had such such routine.

And so when it came time for me,

when I had my period the first time I

thought, I gotta figure this out.

I gotta, you know, it's such an intimate, private, um,

dignified, uh, process.

And I just, you know, I, I said, I've,

I've gotta figure things out.

And, and I did, I figured it out.

I came up with a, with a way to, to, um,

be able to take care

of myself every time I would have my period.

I, I was able to completely independently take care of that.

And that was such, such a big, uh,

a big obstacle.

And the day that I did that for the very first time,

I called my mother on the phone collect

and said, I can do anything in this world.

I can conquer the world because I can do that for myself.

And to me, that was everything I could, you know,

bring on the world because I can, I can handle it.

And so that's why I tell people

that I graduated in May, 1995 with what I like to refer to

as a Bachelor of Arts with a major in Independence

because, um, you know, I have an X ring and, and,

and I earned that X ring.

And I, I earned my degree.

My marks are horrible,

but the life lessons I learned were invaluable.

Well, that's it. So many people go off for life skills,

but you know, for yourself that looked completely different

and it must have been even that much more scary.

You know, it just must have been in

that moment when you're trying

to figure it out in real time.

How do you do this? And your brother is your support.

And it's like, I'm don't think I want my brother

to be helping me out with this,

or, um, I mean, that's incredible.

And I mean, the thing about my brother too is, is

I always knew that I would have supper every night

because we planned, regardless of where we were, we planned

to go to supper together every night.

So that's what we did at the meal hall every night, so

That's amazing.

Yeah. What kind of things did he help you with then?

Was it, um, like, because it's trade, right?

Cafeteria? Yeah.

Yeah. So he'd carry my tray and we'd sit together

and then, you know, as, as the year got going, you know, we,

we, uh, we would have the same, we had the same friends.

We had a couple of classes together, but,

but that's, that's really it.

And then after, after my first year, he didn't go back

to St. FX, but I did.

And then I did have the attendant who would come in

and help me, but it just kind of got less and less and less.

Like, I just, I really figured, figured out how to do things

for myself and,

and really, I, I learned to live away from my mom.

And that's really, I'm so glad I was given that opportunity.

Um, 'cause I know a lot

of times growing up I was really hard on her and, um,

because we're hard on the ones we love, right?

But, but, um, um, you know,

she would always be there no matter what.

So I guess I kind of really learned, um,

what I took for granted.

And, and, yeah. So I have such a lot of respect

and love for my mom.

So something that comes up for me in

that story is this idea of the balance

of independence and support.

Um, so as the accessibility officer at King's,

um, when you are thinking about different supports

to offer students, how do you balance that,

the independence on one hand

and learning to live on your own

and support, uh, on the other,

and wanting to avoid being overbearing,

but also not wanting to leave people without,

uh, enough support?

So, it's kind of funny.

I actually, I tell a lot of my stories to students

because I know what it's like to go to, you know,

to be a student with a disability at, uh,

a very inaccessible campus.

And I mean, let's talk about the world is very

inaccessible Mm-Hmm.

Um, you know, St. FX where I went was very inaccessible.

So, um, but if a student comes into my office

and they wanna go to the accessibility center

and they don't know where it is, well, guess what?

I'm gonna walk them over there

because I know exactly where it is.

And, um, so what I do is I, I,

and I help students to navigate the process of,

of getting accommodations

through the Student Accessibility Center.

Mm-Hmm. And, um,

but, you know, often I've been able

to assist students here at King's.

Um, you know, I was able to assist the student last fall to,

um, to get a, uh,

an accessible room on a different floor in a one

of our residences so that they could access, um,

they could access the, uh, no threshold into the shower.

So, you know, things like that. And Mm-Hmm.

You know, so even just having conversations with students,

I kind of found, found out that a student was kind of, um,

um, dealing with that sort of a, uh, challenge that

they would carry their, their, um,

shower stuff from the third floor where they lived to the

basement, because the basement floor had a,

an accessible shower.

So I advocated

and assisted that student, uh, to be able

to get an accessible room on the, on the floor that, so,

you know, uh, I guess also, um, you know, just, uh,

chatting with students like every student is, is different

and their needs are different.

Um, so yeah, I'm learning, learning

to assist however I can.

I love that it's, well, I mean,

it's like a one step forward, you know,

and each one person that you help,

then hopefully it overcomes, you know,

or it creates that need that Okay, this needs

to be in place, so let's make it better

than for others coming in.

So maybe asking those questions before the person is there

and needs a shower, and, you know,

And, but I can kind of see where students

with disabilities come from.

They don't wanna, like, you know, nobody wants to scream

disabled person here, you know, like as a, as a 18-year-old,

you just wanna fit in and you just wanna be Mm-Hmm.

You just wanna be like everyone else.

You don't wanna want any special treatment.

I know what that's like. Mm-Hmm.

Um, but I, I think it's, it's, it's okay to ask

for that, and it's okay to ask for help.

And it's okay, um, that, uh, that, you know,

you don't ask for it right at the beginning, as long as,

you know, um, 'cause sometimes

it doesn't happen at the beginning.

It, it might happen halfway through the, the, the year

or, or whatnot.

Right. So, you know, and,

and, uh, every individual person is there, uh, you know,

has their own needs and what, you know, needs and goals

and whatever I can do to help help them get there.

Yeah. I suppose in the end,

it's not any different from anybody else that, like,

every kid going to school is gonna have

to strike the dependent, the, the, the balance

of independence and support and learning life skills.

Um, but certainly with when there are disabilities involved,

there's a little more consideration

that needs to go into that.

Um, that's, that's quite interesting.

Thanks. Um, so it's accessibility week this week,

and Red Shirt Day is coming up on Wednesday.

Um, for me, this is my first one, uh,

since moving back to Canada.

I was away for a long time, so, uh,

can you tell me what I should expect?

Um, well, so just to kinda, um,

throw some stats out there, um, uh, 30,

is it 38% of Nova Scotians live with a disability?

So that's, um, almost one in four Nova Scotians live

with some kind of, I'm just reading my, my tips over here.

Um, so almost one in four Nova scotians live with some kind

of disability, many of which are invisible.

Um, so when you consider their families

or friends, disability touches close

to every other Nova Scotia Mm-Hmm.

This is an important demographic to remember.

Um, so I, I love that, that this week,

um, is, is, um, I guess

I don't wanna say mandated,

but, um, you know, it's, it's a national, um, um,

what's the word I'm looking for?

Maybe recognition that

Thank you. Yes.

A national recognition, um,

to celebrate the contributions of Canadians

with disabilities and to promote accessibility

and inclusion in, in everyday life.

Um, so, uh, over here at Kings,

I have posters.

I've hung them up everywhere.

Um, I've sent out an email a few weeks ago, um,

promoting our week.

Um, we do have a flag that's, that was raised this morning,

and it'll be, um, put up every day.

Um, and it's, it's right outside of our library.

Um, and it's beautiful. It's so beautiful.

And then I have pins, I'm wearing a pin right now on my, uh,

my, uh, my shirt top and, um, yeah.

There, yeah. Um, and I have, uh, uh, stickers

and pins to give away.

So I, I just kind of, um,

sent out a message again this morning, um,

to everyone saying Happy National Access, uh, ability Week.

And that on Wednesday is Red Shirt Day, no, red Shirt Day,

um, was established, uh, through Easterseals.

And, um, I know, uh, sin you said that, uh,

you told everyone that I'm a part of Easterseals, uh, Canada

and Easterseals Nova Scotia.

Um, and, um, so this was an initiative in 2019,

and I've taken part in it every year.

And so, uh, red Shirt Day is on Wednesday,

and I, I, um, encourage everyone to wear a red shirt and,

and have a photo, uh, uh, take a photo.

Um, and I have some, uh, links link, uh, sorry, links

or, um, hashtags that you can, um,

that you can, uh, tag. Is that right?

Yeah, perfect. You can share them

and we can put them in the notes too. I'll

Share them.

I'm sorry, I didn't even think of that until now. Of course.

Yeah. No, that's okay. Do you know why the

color red was chosen? Um,

Oh my goodness. I'm

not sure you caught me off guard.

I can, I can, I can figure

find out though, and let you know.

Okay. Okay.

Yeah, no, that'd be great to know

because I'm, I was wondering if it's in the

Easterseals logo or,

Um, so there is red in the Easterseals logo, both Canada

and Nova Scotia.

Um, I'm, I'm Googling

and I shouldn't Google while I'm on it.

Oh, that's totally fine.

'cause we'll, we'll find it

and we'll, uh, we'll pop it in there after.

Okay. And the nice, yeah.

Okay. Thank you. Mm-Hmm.

And so I think, you know, we're talking about accessibility

and celebrating the week, and it was interesting.

So we had this great conversation when we got together, Emma

and yourself and myself, uh, in April, gosh,

I think it was April now at this point.

Anyway. And like, of course, I don't know

how the conversation got onto toilets,

but, uh, maybe you took us there, I'm not sure,

but probably, you know, we learned so much.

And I think the idea of like, okay, what you don't know

around accessibility or you think, you know,

and what you don't really know, I think can be illustrated

through some of our toilet talk conversation.

And we thought was pretty relevant as well,

because there's a lot of talk around inclusion

and accessibility with regards to washrooms for trans women

as well, and for trans youth who, you know, statistically,

um, in schools, you know, the washrooms are not monitored.

They are one of the most, you know, scary spaces

for young trans people, uh, who are often, you know,

not drinking water during the day or liquids

or holding all day, um,

because of that fear of, of going into a washroom

and what might happen if the school

doesn't have an everyone washroom.

So I thought that, you know, this could be really, uh,

relevant to just talk about, you know,

when you're talking about accessibility, some

of the things I thought were accessible within a washroom,

like weren't at all.

And of course, that's because I don't know.

Um, so why don't we, uh, why don't we

talk toilets for a few minutes?

Okay. Everybody wants to hear about toilets.

Um, so when I actually,

when I go into the world, um,

I'm constantly assessing the world

because that's, I, I can't, I can't shut it off.

I can't turn it off. I'm constantly aware

of my surroundings.

I am constantly, um, if, if I have to use a washroom, I kind

of dread the, like, my, my initial thought of going

to the bathroom is, oh my God, am I going to be able

to access the toilet paper?

Like, who thinks like that? Um, I do.

Um, I used to work in a building, um, at Dalhousie

where I would go into, uh, uh, into, uh,

ladies' locker room every day.

And, and, um, I would check out all four stalls

and whichever one had the least amount

of toilet paper in it would be my stall for the day.

And I told so many people a story like that, that

they were then going out

and noticing things like this in, in public.

And, and to me, um, you know, uh, they, they would come back

to me and they would say, um, oh,

I was in a bathroom the other day and I thought of you.

And, um, unfortunately,

I don't like it if you think

about me when you're in the bathroom.

But what it did for me was it made it so that like,

like when I share these kinds of stories,

unfortunately you never unsee it

and you'll see it every time.

So I'm sorry to everyone who's gonna be listening

to this, uh, podcast.

But, um, so, um, you know,

I was at a facility yesterday.

Um, you know, a single use washroom is really,

is probably the best.

And it's the safest for everyone.

It's, it's the safest for, um, people who are trans.

Um, it's safe for people who, um, are,

who have disabilities.

Um, as long as, as long as, um,

the facility is accessible.

And when I say accessible, it's from entry to using the,

the facilities to accessing toilet paper, to flushing, to,

to washing your hands, to leaving.

And I mean, I could write a book on inaccessible washrooms.

Um, you know, I was, I, so the facility I was at yesterday,

um, was, uh, there were two single use stalls.

Uh, sorry, not stalls,

but, um, you know, they each had,

each room had their own door.

So there were two separate washrooms.

Um, and I went into one,

and I mean, it nearly took all, all, all I could,

or all I had to be able to pull the door open

because the door closure was so, like, it was so tight

that it made the door so heavy.

And there's no, it doesn't have to be,

it doesn't ha a door does not have to be heavy.

If it closes behind you, then perfect.

Um, locking mechanisms are another one.

Um, the locking mechanisms, um,

you know, should be the push.

So the le it should be a lever style, um, door handle.

And then the locking mechanism should be a push

you push in, uh mm-Hmm.

There was one time where, um, I was in a facility,

um, and it was a turn style.

Uh, you, you just turned the, uh,

like a little latch that hatch.

Yeah. A little latch turn. Yeah.

And, um, um, I was at,

I was actually at a water ski camp in a,

in a place in Florida,

so I'm sure I can probably mention this.

I don't even remember the name of the facility or where,

or sorry, the, the establishment.

But, um, it was a single use washroom.

And there were a few people from Canada with my group.

And, uh, I got, and it was loud, we were sitting outside,

but I went into use the facilities

and it was, um, very loud.

'cause inside was the inside part

of the restaurant, and there was music playing.

It was so, so loud. And I got stuck in the facility.

I could not, um, I, I turned the, the latch

and, um, got locked in.

And then I was unable to 'cause my fine motor skills.

I was unable to, um, to unlock myself.

So I was texting the people.

I, I had my phone with me, I was texting the people.

I called the people. I ended up having a, an anxiety attack

because I couldn't Yeah.

Couldn't get out the bathroom.

So, um, um, you know, little things like that can be such a,

you know, an like, the anxiety that went.

Like I, I panicked. I had a panic attack. Yeah.

Um, and so they eventually came.

Unfortunately, it was, they had to use a butter knife

to break in to get me,

but I was, I was in complete panic attack mode,

and I was crying so hard.

It was, it was, but those, those are things that, um,

that, that, you know, everyday people don't even,

don't even think about.

So, um, mm-Hmm. I was telling the story about going

to the washroom yesterday.

I'm sorry I didn't finish that story,

but, um, uh, I went into one of the bathroom

and there was water all over the floor,

and I was nervous about slipping.

So I left that facility, that bathroom.

I went into the other bathroom,

and, um, I pulled toilet paper and it broke,

and I pulled toilet paper and it broke,

and I pulled toilet paper and it broke.

Anyway, um, I was able to get enough toilet paper.

Um, and then the flushing mechanism, um, um,

was on the wrong side,

but, um, I was able to access that, um,

and then wash my hands, but then my hands were wet

because it was a dryer only, it was a, a machine that you

put wave your hands under to, to access the dry, the dryer,

the dryer would automatically come on.

I couldn't reach it, so my hands were wet.

And I'm trying to open the door anyway. It's a disaster.

And, and, uh, when you have to go

to the bathroom in the public, I'm, I'm, it's like, hit

or miss most of the time.

Um, and I, I usually tend to make, make light of it and,

and, and, you know, come back

and share my bathroom story with whoever's with me,

because you can't, I mean, I, I can't make this up.

Um, but mm-hmm.

It's, um, I was at a facility last week and,

and they had different stalls.

They did have an accessible stall,

but every stall I walked by, the toilet seat was down.

And I'm like, oh my gosh.

Like, I, like, I couldn't bend down low enough to,

to lift the toilet seat.

And, and that's the first time I've

ever seen something like that.

And there was a sign on the sink that said,

please leave toilet seat down

to allow the automatic flush to flush.

And Well, there's a lot of toilets like

that now, I think too.

Exactly. Exactly. But, um, you know, and,

and I was talking to, um, to some of my, um, friends

with disabilities the other day,

and I have a friend who has a visual impairment,

and she actually prefers the toilet seat to be down.

Well, I actually prefer the toilet seat to be up,

because I can't access the, I can't reach the toilet

seat cover to lift it up if it's down.

I mean, I, I managed it, it, you know, it, it was difficult.

But those sorts of things, like our Mm-Hmm.

Our, so I did manage to talk to a manager at,

at this facility, and I'm like, you might wanna, you know,

maybe, maybe even, uh, uh, I thought about it afterwards

and, and I'm gonna get back to them.

You know, maybe you could even take the cover,

take the lids off, and then,

but then see, um, people with mobility, um,

or make people in wheelchairs

that might transfer themselves onto a toilet,

also need a back rest.

Mm-Hmm. So, um, you know,

you might not wanna take the toilet seat covers away

unless they install back rest,

because you don't want to be able to,

or you don't want to be, uh, a person in a wheelchair, um,

transferring yourself onto a toilet

and then touching the, the back of the tank with your skin.

Um, you know, it could be, uh, could be wet, could be, um,

you know, and, and it could cause, uh, somebody to fall.

So that's, anyway,

I'm talking way too much about, about this.

It's interesting though. It's, yeah, no, it's interesting.

Like, I'm just wondering, so then, like you could have that

with the toilet seat in the wheelchair accessible

washroom, the bigger one.

Yeah. And then maybe have one, you know, that is specified

with, we don't have a back on this one, and this is why.

Right. You know, it, but it is tricky

and it does take intention

because it, it is, it's gonna be a little bit more work

for the facility, but if you find you have people moving

through and it's not accessible for them,

then it's not accessible.

Exactly. Mm-Hmm.

Yeah. Well, and it brings to mind this, this piece that,

that does come up a lot where you have inclusion,

let's say intentions,

but no real life experience driving them or improving them.

And so you get, uh, these solutions

that are not actually solutions.

Um, and it can be, can be really frustrating.

Um, and it, it also, I was curious,

um, I know that when we're talking about everyone bathrooms,

like basically any bathroom that is, you know, doesn't have

a list of people who are allowed to come inside it, um,

signage is often our biggest problem.

Like, they're around, but no one knows where, uh,

because most bathroom signs just point you

to the nearest bathroom, not the nearest bathroom

of any particular type.

So do you run into that?

Is that something that exists in your world and mine,

or not so much? Well,

Um, it's funny.

I don't, uh, I haven't really, I

haven't really noticed that Mm-Hmm.

Um, other than, because I really try to go to, uh,

single use washrooms.

I, I try to do that, um, so that, uh, I know

that I have the entire place

to myself, you know what I mean?

Um, but, um, you know, here, here at King's we have,

uh, gender neutral washrooms.

Um, all of the washrooms all over campus are gender neutral.

Um, and there's two stalls in them.

I've been in a stall when, um, uh,

male has come into the facil, like,

and we, I mean, we're both just using the toilet.

Right. And, and, uh, I mean, you know, I guess that's,

that's, uh, but I haven't, I haven't, uh,

I haven't noticed that.

No. Um, other than single use washrooms being,

um, you know, they, they have the symbol of a,

a man figure and a, a woman figure.

Mm-Hmm. So if they, if they were, if they were

to say gender neutral

or, um, you know, washroom facility, uh, I think that

that would be, you know, so more inclusive. Yeah.

There's this thing, and I'm, it's sort of a new thought.

I'm, I'm kind of working with it now,

but this idea of that you can have a place

that's accessible, but not necessarily inclusive

if people don't know about it.

Um, and a lot of the time there is this idea

of like, yeah, we have that.

Or I'll, I'll be talking to a client

or at a workshop, um, one of the participants,

and it's like, oh, yeah, we have all of these things.

And it's like, great. Does anyone know?

And, and, um, yeah,

that difference maybe between accessibility

and access, uh, can, can be a bit tricky.

Um, and, uh,

but I, I'm curious, uh,

earlier you mentioned invisible visibilities,

and I mean, I've, I've heard the term before

and I know a little about it, but maybe you could talk about

what, um, what that might mean.

So an invisible disability could be, um, you know,

somebody has, uh, dyslexia

or somebody has a DHD or somebody has a learning disability.

Um, could be, uh, a number of things.

Um, uh, you know, could be PTSD.

Um, and I mean, I'm, you know, there's,

there's many, um, mm-Hmm.

But I think that, um, you know, I think that

people might have a, a difficult time.

I know people have a difficult time when it comes to, um,

advocating for themselves

or, you know, advocating for, uh,

for accommodations.

If, if, if they might not, you know, look,

look the part or Mm-Hmm.

This is terrible. I'm sorry.

No, it's, it's a, it's a fair thing.

We had, um, a friend of mine actually was telling a story,

um, where they were looking for an accommodation

and not getting it, and not getting it.

And finally they just got frustrated

and, uh, said, I'm too pretty to be autistic.

And it was because they, they,

we have this image from social media, from, from,

from media in general, but what that looks like,

and it's not accurate, and it's not diverse.

And it's, it's usually one very specific image.

And if you don't fit into that, people don't,

Well exactly. Think

of accommodation,

because we're still in this mindset of, I'm gonna wait

until there's a problem and then I'm gonna accommodate it,

instead of I'm just gonna accommodate everybody,

and then I don't have to grill every

person on what they need.

Exactly. And that's, that's a really good point too.

Um, you know, as, as you're telling this story, it's, um,

you know, I, I do have a lot

of friends in the disability community,

and I have a, a friend who, uh, um,

who has a visual impairment.

And, um, that friend is doing

neuroscience at university.

And, you know, if, if things are just, um, um,

you know, if things are, are accommodated for,

for this person, um, you know, it's, that, that's all,

that's all that they need, right?

Mm-Hmm. This, this individual is gonna go places.

And for example, too, I'll tell you a really quick story.

Um, we ski together, we downhill ski together, okay.

And this person is blind.

Um, and the very first day that we met,

I told them that, um, I ski, when I ski,

I sit ski.

So I sit in a sled and I'm like, tethered from behind.

Um, and 'cause I said, I don't have the strength in my arms

and my legs to downhill ski.

Um, and, um, they,

this person stands to ski,

and, um, they wear a, a penny

or whatever that says, uh, you know, blind skier.

Um, and, um, they always have somebody with them, um,

who skis backwards in front of them

and tells them what to do.

Um, and I mean, this, this person was, was being scouted for

like, like the, you know, professional skiing or,

or, anyway.

Mm-Hmm. Um, but when we fir, when we met the very first day,

and I was telling her how, now that I've identified, um,

um, when I, when I, when we, when we met, um,

and I described my disability to them, um, I,

we, uh, we were talking over lunch

and I, I was explaining how my arms are, are turned, and,

and they said, can I, can I see your arms?

And I said, yeah. And they felt my arms,

and they kind of had a smirk on their face.

And, and, um, they processed what I told them.

And then they, they, they looked

and they said, wow, life for you must be really hard.

And I looked around to see, like, did anybody just hear,

like, the look on my face was like, are you kidding me?

Life for me must be hard. Life for you must be hard, right?

I didn't say that to this person, but I thought it,

but that was their perception of me,

because they see that I have, um,

a physical disability

and wow, life for me must be very hard.

Well, like, life for you must be hard,

but you know what, like, we were both doing something

that day that we both really enjoyed.

We're skiing, guess what? We're doing it differently.

We're do, we're we're doing

what everybody else is doing on the hill.

We're enjoying our time, but we're doing it differently.

We're doing the exact same thing as everyone else.

We're just doing it differently.

And so I just wanted to share that story

because I just, you know, um, it's perception.

It's about a perception and,

and people's perceptions of, of persons with disabilities.

And, you know, I, we could be,

I could be anything that I want.

And that's, you know, having that attitude,

I guess growing up, um, you know, there were,

there were times where my mom was my date on a Friday night.

I mean, and when I say that, you know, my mom

was my right arm

and my mom, you know, was my mom was everything to me.

Again, she was my date on a Friday night.

We, she would, she would, uh, uh, take, you know,

take me out or, you know, take me, take me to a movie

or take me shopping or something.

And, um, you know, my mom now has, uh, she, um,

has, uh, uh, lost some of her vision.

So, um, um, so now, uh,

talk about role reversal

because I'm the one that's now encouraging her and,

and, uh, you know, take driving her everywhere.

So it's kind of, it's, it's really, really neat

how things come around

because, uh, now her advocate, a advocate,

and I'm her support.

So

It's inspiring.

And I am, I love when you,

you shared your motto with us earlier.

I don't know if you wanna share, share that.

Oh, that I'm unstoppable. Yeah.

And that, um, I'm unstoppable and,

or, um, I can do anything in this world.

Um, you know,

it just may might take me a little longer, right.

With things in place, might just take a little longer

and I'm unstoppable.

Of course. Um, yeah.

How many years have you been married, Michelle?

Um, 13 years this year. Wow.

Yeah. I, I met my husband Chris.

Uh, we both worked at Dalhousie

and, uh, so we live, we built an accessible home.

Well, we didn't build it, um, um, but it was built for us.

And I have a few things there.

Um, I have a ramp out front and I have a ramp in my garage.

And, um, I have a walk-in shower,

and I have, uh, a place for everything

and everything in its place.

And it's, it's a nice, cute little home.

And we have a little dog named Gus

a Nova Scotia Duck Toller.

Very nice. Very nice.

And does your mom live close by to you? Yeah.

Yeah. My mom lives about eight minute

drive from where I live.

And, and, uh, you know, uh, it's really great

to have her, in the city.

And, um, yeah, I, you know, I see her often and,

and, uh, yeah.

So

Where do you see yourself going from here now?

So you've, uh, we've worked with Dalhousie,

you're the accessibility officer for King's College,

but you also do some, uh, you do advocacy

and consulting on the side.

Um, yeah. Where do you, where, where do you hope

to, where do you hope to go?

Like what do, what do you see yourself for down the road?

Wow, that's a, that's a great question.

Um, you know, I think that I'll keep on,

uh, doing the work here at Kings.

Um, I've only been at Kings for a year and a half,

and it was a brand new job.

So I'm creating this job, which has been really, uh,

rewarding and challenging and all at all at once.

And, um, um, you know, I think that, uh,

my work here is not done yet,

but, um, I could s

I've landed my dream job here at King's.

Um, you know, I continue to, um,

educate the world every time I go out

and use a public bathroom.

Um, but, um, yeah, no, I think, um, you know,

just live my life and,

and, uh, um, just, just doing

what everyone else is doing really.

And, and, uh, um, getting, uh,

maybe a little bit better at assisting students more here at

Kings to, uh, uh,

and also, uh, you know, I'd really love

to put Kings on a map to be a, a choice for people

with disabilities to, to come to, you know, I,

I can confidently say that we could, um, house a student,

um, with a disability

and they can, um, um,

go on an accessible route to the meal hall, to classes,

to the library, and to my office of course.

And, um, yeah.

So, uh, I think that my work here is still yet to,

uh, to come.

Well, it sounds like it.

And I have a, a special place in my heart for Kings.

'cause I graduated from the journalism school there in, uh,

2012, actually.

I know the building well and the campus Well, and, uh,

and I know where to find you downstairs in your beautiful

sunny office as well.

So we'll have to get together again,

the three of us and Yes.

And, uh, and talk toilets

and other wonders of the world. I really

Love talking about toilets.

So do I Well, you know, there's a lot to be learned.

I mean, I, the first thing I think,

and I don't think you touched on it, was

that those toilet rolls that they have, the, like,

say the silver topper over half of them,

and you kind of lift up the flap.

Yes. And I thought, oh, well, maybe that has to do

with germs or maybe that, but you said like they're not

accessible for you at all.

Like, and Yeah, so,

And it's funny, we, we bought a couple of, uh,

toilet paper dispensers here just

to try them out open roll toilet paper dispensers.

And we put one in one of the, one of the bathrooms here at,

well, in two of the bathrooms.

But I had asked different staff, I said, like,

so did you notice any change?

Oh, yeah, I noticed that there's a couple of, um,

the grab bars are different

and the toilet paper roll holder is different.

And I said, and you know, is, is it easy to use?

And they said, well, actually,

I can access the toilet paper a lot easier.

And I'm like, okay, my work here is done.

And, you know, and, and to hear that just really kinda, um,

again, makes, makes me feel like my work here is done

because I don't, you know, I don't, yes,

I go into the world every day

and I, I, I'm constantly seeing, um, you know,

uh, the, the inaccessible world.

But, um, you know, I'm not angry

because what, what's that gonna do?

Nothing. Um,

but also, um, I take it as a, as an opportunity

to educate and, you know, like, like we have a ramp here

to get into our library.

Well, guess what? It's a steep ramp, but it's a ramp.

But guess so it, it's great that we have a ramp.

Yes, it was built to code in 1990 when it was built,

but you know what, it's not, it's not

to code anymore, but we have a ramp.

So things like that, we need to celebrate.

We need to celebrate the small achievements that we do.

Um, you know, we've made a lot of changes around kings with,

um, door handles.

We've changed doorknob handles to lever style

and everybody benefits from that.

Um, there are a number of washrooms here

that have accessible doors

and anybody can benefit from an accessible door.

Um, yeah.

So, you know, those are some

of the things that we've done here.

Yeah. And it really is those, those small actions

that don't seem like much when people are,

are building plans, but when you actually are

living day to day, they're huge. They

Are. Yeah.

Thank you.

All right. Well, um, for those following on social media,

if you'd like to follow the link in the show notes, uh,

we do have a bathroom sticker, um,

that you can put on any bathroom,

and it'll just give people directions to the nearest, uh,

accessible washroom

or the nearest, uh, gender neutral washroom.

Uh, we'd love to hear who

and how you're celebrating this week.

Uh, so please tag us at simply good form

and stories like this are possible

with support from the TD Bank group,

and we'd like to give them a thank you.

Yeah, thank you so much, Michelle, for joining us.

And I will have to track down something.

This is my red that I had, I put it on today, my scarf.

I need to find a shirt. But, uh, I did see, I put a,

I'll put a link in about the red shirt day

and on the website, red shirt day.org,

you can make a pledge, you can get a T-shirt.

There's a lot of different ways

that you can get involved in the day,

so we can share that link there too. Perfect.

Perfect. Thank you so much for having me.

This was super fun. And, uh, we'll have

to plan a plan a coffee in the upcoming weeks.

But you have a great week,

and thanks for joining us. You guys have

A great week too. Thank you.

Happy. Thanks so much for coming in.